Hardgainers

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  • Hardgainers

    Muscle and Strength: Switching gears...you've written for Hardgainer magazine. Do you feel hardgainers exist? And what are the key mistakes that naturals make that lead them down the path to zero gains? I see so many young lifters on the Internet who can't seem to make any gains. Is this merely a patience issue, or is there more to it then that?

    Casey Butt: There is clearly a continuum of trainees' abilities to make gains. It doesn't take much observation in the gym to realize that some people gain quickly and relatively easily while others' gains are painfully slow or even non-existent. And I've been around the "scene" long enough to realize it can't simply be explained by some people following more effective training routines, diets, taking the right supplements, etc. The fact is, were all these things optimized for each individual there would still be a huge difference between the extremes of how people's bodies respond to training.

    There are a myriad of factors influencing how much and how quickly a person can build muscle, strength and power. Top of the list are things such as natural anabolic hormone levels such as testosterone, GH, IGF-1, cortisol, insulin, glucagon, etc. Also, how these are affected in each individual by training and nutrition plays a huge factor. The average male testosterone level varies from 3 to 10 ng/ml. It is completely out of touch with reality for a person, no matter how well-intentioned, to believe that someone whose average daily testosterone level is 3 ng/ml will make gains as quickly, or have the potential to achieve an equal level of muscle mass, as someone whose average daily testosterone level is 10 ng/ml. A given amount of testosterone will only allow the development and maintenance of a certain amount of muscle mass and that's that. If this were not true, then steroid use wouldn't result in a sudden jump in muscle mass for natural trainees who've already maxed out their natural potentials - yet we see this all the time when advanced naturals finally give in and take the plunge into anabolic drug use. Similarly, drug-using bodybuilders, once they reach the limit of muscle mass allowed by their existing drug schedule, won't get any bigger unless they increase the amount of steroids they take or switch to steroids that are more anabolic in nature.

    Some people's body chemistries respond to food intake by building more muscle than others. Some people quickly get fat when they overeat, others just get more energetic and their body temperature increases to burn off the excess calories. I've known natural bodybuilders who can eat like horses and not gain fat, they just keep getting stronger and more muscular. Me, on the other hand, can get fat just watching them eat. How the body responds to meals with regards to insulin, glucagon, growth hormone, thyroid hormones (notably T3 and T4), testosterone, etc, all factor heavily into whether a person is going to build comparatively more muscle or more fat. Of course, general biochemistry and physiology applies to everyone, and general guidelines apply, but there is huge variation between people's responses to food intake even on identical programs.

    So far these are all hormonal factors - structural considerations bear heavily as well. Large, robust-jointed people have a huge advantage over small, more fragile-jointed types. How much training stress can be imposed on a muscle is directly related to how robust it's connective tissues (tendons) are and how secure the joint is across which it acts. Sensory organs in the tendons and joint capsules relay information back to the central nervous system regarding connective tissue tension and joint stability. The moment either of these is compromised the nervous system will limit the contracting force of the muscles involved.

    Larger, more robust-jointed trainees have a distinct advantage over smaller-jointed trainees in that their sturdy structures give them the capacity to lift more weight and deliver greater training stimuli to the muscles each session. Loads that these people can easily tolerate will be unliftable by smaller-jointed people, not necessarily because of the strength of the muscles themselves, but because their nervous systems and joint structures simply will not allow the weight to be lifted. For this reason, smaller-jointed people typically cannot keep up to their larger-boned counterparts on free-weight compound movements, but will often display impressive strength on isolation movements that impose less joint capsule deformation. For instance, experienced small-boned trainees are usually comparatively weak on pressing movements but may equal the larger-structured guys' strength on flyes and lateral raises - that's usually a sign of joint/connective tissue/nervous system inhibition rather than muscle weakness.





    Ask yourself this: When is the last time you saw a small-boned elite-level Powerlifting, Olympic Weightlifting or natural Bodybuilding champion? It is becoming increasing rare in natural bodybuilding, particularly now that drug-free Bodybuilding seems to be gaining popularity and the competition is getting higher, but it practically never happens in strength sports.

    Occasionally a trainee comes along who seems to have all the gifts - high natural anabolic hormone levels, excellent hormonal response to training and eating, a robust structure that allows heavy loads to be lifted and great stress to be delivered to the working muscles. Given desire and diligence, these are the trainees who go on to be legends of their sports. In bodybuilding, examples which always come to mind are the old-timers Reg Park and John Grimek. Both were robust-jointed, trained extremely heavily and had metabolisms that allowed them to assimilate incredible amounts of nutrition and grow from their training (in reality both heavy training and hearty eating must go together to allow each other to take place). Reg's wife Mareon told of him eating six bowls of borshch on their first date - that was the appetizer. John Grimek's wife said there was no way of filling him up yet his waist remained small and "trim". Park's waist, despite his 230 pound off-season bodyweight, never went above 33". If many other people tried eating like that they'd expand like balloons - particularly the fragile jointed types who have difficulty stimulating the muscles without frying the nervous system. Men like Park and Grimek were supremely gifted in that their bodies well tolerated heavy, hard training and the growth stimulus delivered by that was satisfied by their heavy food intakes.

    Such gifted individuals are usually not difficult to spot, even as beginners. I've seen photos of four-time Mr. Natural Universe Mike O'Hearn when he was just 15 years old and even at that age he already had a physique superior to many experienced drug-free trainees.

    So my answer has to be, "Yes, there is such thing as a hardgainer." But more than that there is a vast continuum of how people respond to training and eating. For hardgainers to finally stop looking and lifting like hardgainers they have to assess their own situations and adapt their training accordingly - with the knowledge that fragile joints, heavy loading and nervous system overtraining are all intertwined and can't be ignored as so many training "authorities" seem to do.

    As for the second part of the question, I'd have to say that the number one mistake naturals make is one of priorities. What the vast majority of natural bodybuilders want most is to get bigger, yet they fail to understand the over-riding necessity of getting progressively stronger, for reps, on the major free-weight compound exercises in order to achieve that goal ...and failing to give that fundamental tenet its proper magnitude is what leads to 90% of the other common mistakes most trainees make.

    In light of what I said above about small-boned trainees' joint structures not accommodating the use of heavy weights on the free-weight compound movements it might be easy to conclude that these types should train mostly on isolation movements, but this is not the case either. Even though small-boned trainees tend to overtrain more easily on the compound movements (especially when training to failure with heavy weights), for maximum training stimulus all natural trainees simply must have maximum muscle fiber loading across the mid-range of the fibers range of contraction. This is where the potential for greatest growth stimulus lies and what the old-timers referred to as training the "belly" of the muscle. The basic compound exercises typically apply maximum loading across this range.

    What most trainees reactively do when their strength gains on the major exercises eventually come to a halt is start throwing in additional isolation work in an effort to spur further growth - but all this is usually doing is giving an appeasing distraction that fools trainees into thinking they're progressing, when in reality they are just as stagnant as they ever were. It's simply smoke and mirrors. Big loads are necessary to stress the fibers at the points of maximum cross-bridge overlap and to cause the local and systemic release of anabolic hormones such as prostaglandins, GH, IGF-1 and testosterone. Although it should just be common sense, it needs to be pointed out to many people that little weights and isolation exercises do not build big muscles.

    The "secret" is to learn to continue to make strength progress on the basic exercises, for reps, at the advanced stages. Even for large-boned trainees this is a task, but for the small-boned it is especially challenging. In any case, the more experienced a trainee gets the more variety he needs in terms of sets, reps, training intensity (both in terms of weight and how close one trains to failure) and even exercise selection to keep training performances improving - but it is CRUCIAL that the experienced trainee masters this if he/she wants to make further progress.





    What most naturals need to do is stop concerning themselves with every new flashy training theory that comes along and just devote themselves to simply getting stronger for reps on a few basic exercises for each major body part - even to the point of ignoring practically everything else and allowing no distractions from that goal. And if muscle proportion and balance is a priority (which it really always should be) the solution almost always lies in the selection of the proper free-weight compound exercises, not more "exotic" isolation work.

    Now, I have to seemingly contradict myself and say that isolation work does have a place in an advanced trainee's schedule - particularly for competitive athletes addressing weak points or any trainee who may be rehabilitating an injury or trying to prevent one. But my point above is that for anyone trying to boost overall muscle mass, strength gains on the basics are the route to success.

    bron: An Interview with Casey Butt, Part 3 | Muscle & Strength
    I know from teaching hundreds of seminars that the guys who say they have “awesome technique” are usually the biggest disasters—their ego just doesn’t let them see it.
    - Dave Tate

  • #2
    Prima stukje, leesbaar voor iedereen met basisengels ook.
    "Een zoektocht naar kennis moet los staan van het moreel van goed of kwaad, anders is die toch gedoemd niet volledig te zijn." - Genjuro

    sigpic

    "Rock is overpowered. Paper is fine" -Scissors-

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    • #3
      o.k goed stukje..

      dus je botstructuur bepaal voor een groot gedeelte of je veel kan gainen of niet..


      verklaar een hoop ieder geval voor mij..

      Comment


      • #4
        Ik ben recent begonnen met te trainen to failure en hoewel ik dan daarna goed gegeten heb zit ik nog met een honger gevoel. Men maag knort niet maar ik heb het gevoel dat ik een paard kan opeten. Wat wil dat dan zeggen? Neemt mijn lichaam dan goed op, of hoe zit dat. Want dat leid ik een beetje af uit deze post. Naast andere dingen natuurlijk.
        Yes love, I'm able to turn stones into flowers!!!

        Verlichting is houden van jezelf!!!

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        • #5
          Zegt niks anders dan dat je honger hebt. Als je herstel goed is en je vetaanzet binnen de perken: houden zo. Indien je herstel slecht is, en je niet aankomt: eten!
          "Een zoektocht naar kennis moet los staan van het moreel van goed of kwaad, anders is die toch gedoemd niet volledig te zijn." - Genjuro

          sigpic

          "Rock is overpowered. Paper is fine" -Scissors-

          Comment


          • #6
            Het klinkt zo tegenstrijdig, ik heb een smalle botstructuur wat dus inhoud dat ik minder sterk ben bij de compounds. In delen klopt dit zeker, maar wat ik dan niet snap is dat hij zegt: mensen met een smalle botstructuur zijn wel (even) sterk bij isolaties omdat het CZS etc er niet bij betrekt. Conclusie: smalle botstructuur zwak bij compounds, sterk bij isolaties. Toch wordt er dan in laatste stuk beweert dat isolaties eigenlijk alleen profijt geven voor gevorderde sporters die spieren bij willen sturen, na een blessure of voor het voorkomen van blessures. Dit is logisch gezien echt heel tegenstrijdig, ik heb al je andere artikelen ook gelezen dus ik weet wel dat het juist heel logisch is, maar toch.
            Current status: Bulkin' and gainin'

            "The mind is the limit. As long as the mind can envision the fact that you can do something. You can do it, as long as you really believe 100 percent."

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            • #7
              Inferno, hoe weet je dan in welke categorie je valt wat gewrichten betreft? Geven ze daar nog een objectieve maat voor (gerelateerd aan lengte ook nog) of is het een kwestie van kijk-en-vergelijk?

              Comment


              • #8
                Hoe weet je hoe je gewrichtsstructuur is? En wat moet ik me voorstellen bij CZS overbelasting?
                Train hard or go hormone

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Toph View Post
                  Hoe weet je hoe je gewrichtsstructuur is? En wat moet ik me voorstellen bij CZS overbelasting?
                  Centrale Zenuwstelsel
                  “If you really want to do something, you will find a way; if you don't, you will find a excuse.”

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Pallas View Post
                    Inferno, hoe weet je dan in welke categorie je valt wat gewrichten betreft? Geven ze daar nog een objectieve maat voor (gerelateerd aan lengte ook nog) of is het een kwestie van kijk-en-vergelijk?
                    Dat niet direkt. Maar er zijn wel methodes om te berekenen wat je zou kunnen bereiken wat betreft VVM en omvang, gebaseerd op de omtrek van je polsen en enkels:

                    The WeighTrainer - Maximum Muscular Bodyweight and Measurements Calculator

                    Er is ook een artikel over geplaatst hier:

                    http://forum.bodynet.nl/algemeen/498...potential.html
                    I know from teaching hundreds of seminars that the guys who say they have “awesome technique” are usually the biggest disasters—their ego just doesn’t let them see it.
                    - Dave Tate

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by maar7en8 View Post
                      Centrale Zenuwstelsel
                      No shit Maar hoe overbelast je je CZS? Zenuwen hebben nou niet de neiging om uitgeput te raken volgens mij.
                      Train hard or go hormone

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Pallas View Post
                        Inferno, hoe weet je dan in welke categorie je valt wat gewrichten betreft? Geven ze daar nog een objectieve maat voor (gerelateerd aan lengte ook nog) of is het een kwestie van kijk-en-vergelijk?
                        Kun je toch gewoon zien. Ben je dat fijne gebouwde "popje" of die "Russische kogelstootster" qua lichaam, skelet structuur, vormen.

                        Mijn stiefvader gebruikt "bouw" altijd als excuus. Aanleg: Dat is de reden waarom ik altijd al vrij breed was, en hij altijd vrij smal was met een buikje.

                        More knowledge will just increase your potential. For this potential to be manifested, the knowledge must be applied!

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                        • #13
                          van deze artikelen vind ik het altijd jammer, omdat mensen dan heel vaak een limiet voor zichzelf gaan maken en allerlei smoesjes ja ik kan niet groter worden.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by talalelh15 View Post
                            van deze artikelen vind ik het altijd jammer, omdat mensen dan heel vaak een limiet voor zichzelf gaan maken en allerlei smoesjes ja ik kan niet groter worden.
                            Waarom persee groter worden.
                            Never send a boy to do a mans job!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by talalelh15 View Post
                              van deze artikelen vind ik het altijd jammer, omdat mensen dan heel vaak een limiet voor zichzelf gaan maken en allerlei smoesjes ja ik kan niet groter worden.
                              Ja, dat is zeker waar. Het is interessante stof, maar voor de meeste mensen niet van toepassing. Uiteindelijk maakt het niet uit wat je bot structuur is, het is belangrijker dat je genen je de mogelijkheid geven om discipline uit te oefenen.

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