Insuline

[pescatore]

Ik begrijp dit nog niet helemaal. Meer voedingstoffen opnemen / gecontroleerd herstel/groei is het idee right? Vanuit een fysiologisch oogpunt snap ik alleen niet exact hoe het werkt.

Zijn hier goeie stukken over geschreven?
Is het icm met iedere soort AAS hetzelfde?
Waarom wordt het vaak icm met hgh gebruikt?
Waarom kan ik mijn insuline niet spiken met voeding op een vergelijkbare manier?
Wat zijn de risico's buiten diabetes en hoe realistisch zijn deze?
Gebruiken al die massa monsters het?

Etc etc. Ik wil graag begrijpen hoe dit werkt, liefst zo gedetailleerd mogelijk.

[akito]

Ik begrijp dit nog niet helemaal. Meer voedingstoffen opnemen / gecontroleerd herstel/groei is het idee right? Vanuit een fysiologisch oogpunt snap ik alleen niet exact hoe het werkt.

Zijn hier goeie stukken over geschreven?
Genoeg kan er straks wel wat posten

Is het icm met iedere soort AAS hetzelfde
Jazeker (voor zover ik weet)

Waarom wordt het vaak icm met hgh gebruikt?
Vullen elkaar aan (HGH, IGF-1 en Insuline) -> Sticky op dbb
http://forum.dutchbodybuilding.com/f133/veel-gestelde-vragen-hgh-67147/ zie "hoe vullen HGH en Insuline elkaar aan)

Waarom kan ik mijn insuline niet spiken met voeding op een vergelijkbare manier?
Totaal verschillende hoeveelheden (suprafysiologisch)

Wat zijn de risico's buiten diabetes en hoe realistisch zijn deze?
Coma (als gevolg van problemen aan het zenuwstelsel), hersenbloedingen (vrij onrealistisch bij normaal gebruik), alle symptomen bij hypoglyckemie horend (o.a. hoofdpijn duizelijkheid maar reken dit niet echt tot "risicos").

Gebruiken al die massa monsters het?
Praktisch wel

Etc etc. Ik wil graag begrijpen hoe dit werkt, liefst zo gedetailleerd mogelijk.

Snap dat je liever de ekte theorie heb dus zal straks we lff kijken wat ik kan vinden :-) Heb zelf eigk alle svan dat DBB subforum stickies (http://forum.dutchbodybuilding.com/f133/)

[antma]

Info van dbb is ook wat achterhaald.
Zoek eens op rx forum en getbig forum zal zo nog wat posten.
Insuline wordt trouwens heeeeeeeel veel gebruikt zonder aas en hgh.
Bij hgh in hoge hoeveelheden is het bijna noodzakelijk omdat je insuline resistent wordt.
Maand op maand af om diabetici te voorkomen.
Ja alle massamonsters gebruiken het, beginners doen bv 10iu pwo en bij opstaan
De ekte buffels rustig 10-20iu voor elke maaltijd.
Zal zo ff voor wat links kijken

[pescatore]

Aaah, tnx mannen!

[antma]

Stukje van eroids

Today I would like to post some detailed info on insulin, as there seems to be a real shortage of that on here.

First off I would like to say that you should not fuck around with substances that can actually kill you (insulin, DNP etc) unless you really know what your doing. But let's cut to the chase:

What is insulin?

Insulin is a polypeptide hormone that is exclusively produced by the pancreatic beta cells. These beta cells are located in clusters known as the "islets of Langerhans" within the pancreas. Insulin's main function within the body is nutrient distribution; as you consume food, the pancreas secretes the stored insulin, which in turn transports the nutrients within your circulatory system to the various destinations such as liver, muscles, fat tissue and brain. Insulin thereby lowers blood sugar levels.

A lack of insulin within the body leads to the sugar disease called diabetes mellitus, the most common metabolic disease. People with this disease have a pancreas that is unable to produce sufficient amounts of the hormone independently, hence warranting an exogenous input and making daily insulin injections necessary.

Insulin and bodybuilding

So why is insulin important in bodybuilding? Insulin itself, if administered alone, does not have a great muscle-building effect. However, it can be seen as an "activator" that greatly enhances the muscle-building effects of anabolic steroids, IGF-1 and growth hormone especially. Within the scientific literature you will find a multitude of studies that clearly document how a combined usage of insulin and growth hormone has a much stronger effect than if you would take these compounds separately. Both insulin and growth hormone increase the protein content within the muscle tissue, and only a combined use will lead to a maximum effect.

As we know, the majority of the growth hormone is channelled into the liver after an injection. It is now the task of these liver cells to begin the production of IGF-1. For this process, not only testosterone and thyroid hormones are needed, but also insulin in a sufficiently high quantity. This however is where most GH users have the big issue: a healthy adult produces about 50 I.E (or 2mg) of insulin per day, and this is not sufficient to guarantee maximum stimulation of IGF-1 production within the liver.

Now the body knows this problem, and hence increases insulin production with the use of GH; it has the ability to induce an increased insulin release from the pancreas. Blood insulin levels rise and the liver can use this to produce IGF-1. The problem is though, that continuous use of GH actually damages the beta cells in the islets of Langerhans and the previously increased insulin production is brought to a halt. This also implies that extensive GH use over long periods of time at high dosages can actually cause a worryingly low endogenous insulin production. Obviously this will cause a reduction in IGF-1 production within the liver. Furthermore, scientific studies have proven that an insulin deficit causes a reduction of GH receptors within the liver, which means that the liver will not be able to utilise some of the injected GH.

This means that if you ensure a sufficiently high insulin level during a GH cycle you are right on the money, as the most important thing is to give the liver the ability to produce the maximum amount of IGF-1. The same holds true for the muscle cells, which are also able to produce IGF-1 locally from testosterone, thyroid hormone, growth hormone and insulin.

On top of that, insulin is also able to improve the anabolic effect of the IGF-1 the body produces; it positively regulates the synthesis and serum concentration of the IGF-1-binding proteins. Additionally, it supports the formation of the important IGF-1/IGFBP-3 complex within the blood. IGFBP-3 is a binding protein that binds with the IGF-1 in the blood and hence protects against breakdown. Hence we can construct the following chain of reference: insulin stimulates the the IGF-1/IGFBP-3 complex, IGFBP-3 lengthens the shelf life of IGF-1 in the blood, which in turn increases the effectiveness of IGF-1.

Finally, insulin increases the amount of GH receptors in the liver and thereby allows the processing of higher GH dosages. Studies have shown that the excretion of GH within the urin is significantly lower if insulin is applied.

Synergystic effect of GH and insulin

Insulin and GH both act in synergy regarding the protein metabolism: both hormones enhance the penetration of amino acids into the muscle cells; this is based on the fact that the permeability of the cell membrane is elevated. within the muscle cell itself both insulin and GH stimulate protein synthesis.

If we compare the effect of GH and insulin more closely, we find another impressive similarity: both hormones promote the conservation of protein. Insulin does this at the expense of glucose, whereas GH does this at the expense of fatty acids. To put it into bodybuilding jargon: we have an anticatabolic effect.

Insulin and GH both protect the athlete in "stress" situations (overtraining) and malnutrition (competition diet) from losing muscle tissue. The reason for this is that both compounds inhibit a process called "gluconeogenesis". Gluconeogenesis is an energy generation process that is carried out within the liver and uses protein as fuel. Since insulin (through the supply of glucose) and GH (through the supply of fatty acids) inhibit gluconeogenesis in different ways, both complement their efficiency with combined use leading to a greater anticatabolic effect.

The disregard for insulin

So based on these facts, why is it that bodybuilders are still sceptical of this compound? For hardcore-bodybuilders, it simply can't be the inherent health risks or fear of side effects.

Actually, this can be based on the antipolytic properties that insulin has: it has the dubious reputation to promote the storage of fat. This is a correct assessment, as we know that insulin increases the uptake of glucose in the fat cells and furthermore also inhibits the secretion of fatty acids out of the fat cell.

Strangely enough though, pro-bodybuilders utilise insulin even during their pre-contest diets. The GH is what plays the crucial role here, as it has an antagonistic effect to the insulin regarding the carbohydrate and fat metabolism. This basically means that GH inhibits the effect of insulin on the fat tissue. The fat cells develop a resistance to insulin, meaning that it can no longer dock on to the fat cell in order to infiltrate glucose molecules. In addition, the GH inactivates a genetic codex named "Glut-4" that causes the transport of glucose into the fat cells. Furthermore, the GH inhibits the anitpolytic effect of insulin (fat loss inhibition) which can be proven by a high amount of free fatty acid circulation in the blood during the combined use of both compounds. Basically, both compounds fight for the upper hand within the fat cell: GH wins.

You will not find a pro bodybuilder that utilises insulin without combining it with GH

[antma]

Van muscle talk van een insuline goeroe

The Almost Pro Guide to Insulin Use

Please note (warning): I have personally used insulin for over 8 years and can control it's effects for my personal level of development. I am not a medical doctor and therefore not fully qualified to recommend insulin use for people. What follows is my experience in 8 years of use and what I have learned. If anyone has additional information that is pertinent, please add to the thread, but do not reply from heresay, only if you are qualified to add something of value to this thread.

Insulin is one of many hormones that helps the body turn the food we eat into energy. Also, insulin helps us store energy that we can use later. After we eat, insulin works by causing sugar (glucose) to go from the blood into our body's cells to make fat, sugar, and protein. When we need more energy between meals, insulin will help us use the fat, sugar, and protein that we have stored. This occurs whether we make our own insulin in the pancreas gland or take it by injection.

8 Years ago when I first made the decision to try insulin, information was limited, the internet was not full of help like it is now and I relied on correspondance from Rich Gaspari and Tim Belknap who were extremely helpful. I started my first insulin use off season, during bulking when it's use is easiest to control. I used Humulin R, regular resonse time insulin for my first cycle. It has a release time of up to 8 hours, so blood sugar monitoring is mandatory. It has an onset of about 1/2 hour, reaching its peak in 2-5 hours and tapering off by hour 8. I used 2iu post workout with 20 grams of sugar per iu, immediately following a workout, increasing 2 iu per week until I reached a maximum of 12iu. Since it will remain active in the body for up to 8 hours, morning workouts were a must. Because I was off season, I was able to take in enough carbs every three hours to keep from going hypo.

My second cycle of insulin was Humulin type L, which is a very long acting insuling; since I was bulking, I decided to try a long acting insulin to stay anabolic all day. It will remain active in the body for 16-20 hours, is active 1/2 hour after injection, reaching its peak in 3-5 hours, will re-peak at 10-12 hours and slowly taper down. You must use a glucometer for any insulin use, but especially with long term insulin. I had to consume minimum 100 grams of carbs every 3 hours during the day, I got nothing but fat off of insulin type L and do not ever recommend anyone use it. It is too hard to control.

I did many cycles of Humulin R for years, progressing from 2iu up to 20iu post workout. After many post workout only cycles of insulin, I started to experiment with insulin use on non-workout days. I again started slowly and increased dosages with monitoring by glucometer. I used only with breakfast at first and then added in an afternoon injection as well. I never went above 10iu at each meal, always checking my blood sugar every 1/2 hour. Yes your fingers will hurt like hell, but I would rather have sore fingers than live in a casket.

Finally Humalog was introduced and I first tried it in 1999. This is what bodybuilders had been waiting for, a fast acting insulin that had a quick onset, short duration and was better controlled through sugar intake. My first cycle of Humalog started with the again customary 2iu postworkout, slowly increasing to 10iu post workout. Humalog has an onset of 15-20 minutes, reaches a peak in 1 hour and will remain active up to 5 hours.

I only recommend Humalog use for anyone considering insulin. It is the easiest to control and work with. Here are my recommendations and guidelines for use:

Start with 2iu postworkout only, drinking 10 grams glucose or dextrose per unit injected. You may slowly increase the dose up to 10iu total but never exceed 10iu, even if you are experienced. You must, I repeat, must use a glucometer, don't even think of using insulin without it. Going by feel for symptoms of hypo is stupid and reckless. You want to make sure your blood sugar levels stay above 80mg/dl ideally, but never let them drop below 40.

Since humalog is active for up to 5 hours, you must make sure not to take it after evening workouts, unless you will be awake for those 5 hours. Insulin levels can crash rapidly and there are no warning signs when you are sleeping. Low levels will make you sleepy, so you just won't wake up - ever!

Your postworkout meal should consist of minimum 10 grams sugar per iu injected plus minimum 50 grams whey protein. Your follow up meal, 1 hour after injection, when it reaches its peak, should consist of easily digested proteins and carbs. No red meat; fish, chicken or turkey are more easily digested. Carbs should be high glycemic, such as potatoes, white rice or pasta.

Your final meal during the 5 hour window can be anything you desire as long as it has a minimum of 75 grams carbs. Oatmeal, red meat etc are all acceptable, and your carbs should ideally be low glycemic to sustain your stabilizing insulin levels.

Insulin should be refridgerated at all times; though it is safe to leave at room temperature for up to 30 days, I don't recommend it.

Your injections should always be sub-q, IM injections do not allow for the regular onset times and delay onset which makes controlling carbs and monitoring sugar levels harder to do.

Ideally injections should be in the lower abdominal area, sub-q. Pinch 1 inch of skin, roll in between your fingers to remove fatty deposits and inject at a 90 degree angle crossing through the skin. This will insure an optimal sub-q injection and less chance of IM or fat injections. Both will slow absorbtion time which we are trying to eliminate.

Take a glucometer reading 1/2 hour after injection to check levels. If they are below 80mg/dl than take in more carbs immediately, take another glucometer reading after the one hour mark to check full onset and reaction. Again, if below 80mg than take in a fast acting carb with your one hour meal.

Signs of hypo include, dizziness, slow slurred speech, light-headedness, sleepiness, lethargy, numbness in the outer limbs, and blurred vision. Never take insulin unsupervised, alway let someone you know that you are injecting so they can help monitor warning signs and symptoms. Remember, the glucometer is your best friend, but someone else may notice symptoms before you do and can assist in raising blood sugar levels immediately.

You may progress to taking Humalog on non-workout days, but only after breakfast, and no more than 10iu. You must work up to the dosage and again follow the above guidelines. Your meals should consist of a mix of fast and slow acting carbs, and always include protein. Milk has fast acting carbs, oatmeal is low glycemic, etc. always use the glycemic index for carbs.

These are the general rules of taking insulin safely and sanely. Again, I do not recommend the casual lifter take insulin ever, it is better left to those who compete and have reached a superior level of development. It is best used to break plateaus, such as with GH or IGF. It is not for newbies, nor for those without minimum 5 years lifting experience with steroid use.

If there is anything I forgot, please PM me or add advice to this thread, but again only by those qualified to do so. You should have at least 5 cycles insulin use to be qualified to help others. This is very serious business and I cannot stress enough, not for the casual lifter.

AP
Since this article was originally written, new ideas have come to light and been tested, not only by me, but also by my band of guinee pigs with awesome success.

We decided to remove the daily injection pattern and move into a more infrequent schedule to prevent insulin resistence and shutting down the bodies natural ability to continue to regenerate insulin from the pancreas.

So after talking with Milos, Chad and others I tried and found a two day schedule, max three day schedule to be optimal to induce massive hypertrophy and minimize insulin resistance. It should be coordinated and timed with the largest muscle groups trained, such as taken 2 times per week pwo after legs and then also with back.

Maximize your nutrition intake, I cannot stress enough that up to 30-40% of your daily intake of food should be during this window of opportunity. Immediately take in some glucose and whey pwo, followed up by a super clean meal of high carb, moderate protein. Have pancakes and eggs, chicken and rice, lean beef and potatoes, etc.

So the protocol is now this:
Take 10-15ius pwo only 2-3 days per week but never in successive days. There must be at least one day in between injections. Lower is better here, so start with 2 times per week, 10iu.

If you are not making the gains, then stay at 2x per week but now do morning and pwo. Same thing, 10iu injects with clean carbs, no fat. Please use Humalog. I know a lot of guys are using Humulin R and I can help you with that if that is all you can get, but log is so much easier to use.

Anyway, you can go up to 3x per day, breakfast, lunch, and dinner 2x per week and really maximize your gains from slin. It really is all in the nutrition with slin, so if you don't want to eat and commit, then don't f'in do it.

[knulletje01]

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