Nail in the Coffin of fasted cardio

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  • Nail in the Coffin of fasted cardio

    Nail in the Coffin of fasted cardio
    A new article on fasted cardio appearing in the Strength and Conditioning Journal by Brad Schoenfeld, MSc, CSCS

    I put the full text below for those who are interested. For those that are lazy to read the whole thing here are the cliffs:

    -research has shown no difference in total fat loss between subjects doing fasted cardio and those doing cardio after eating.

    -fat burning consists of 1) liberating fatty acids from adipose tissue through lipolysis and then transport of those fatty acids to other tissues like muscle, liver, heart where they are then 2) oxidized for energy. When you eat before cardio you reduce lipolysis but it ends up not making a difference because lipolysis is NOT the rate limiting step of fat loss when it comes to cardio, it is oxidation that is rate limiting so you end up oxidizing the same amount

    -you may burn MORE fat over a 24 hour period when you eat beforehand because there is a GREATER thermogenic response to cardio as opposed to eating fasted

    -Lemon et al. demonstrated nitrogen losses were DOUBLED when you train fasted. Fantastic for maintaining muscle in a caloric deficit... NOT

    -not eating before cardio will reduce training intensity and means you will burn less calories during cardio because you won't have as much energy.

    here is the full article

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Does Cardio After an Overnight Fast Maximise Fat Loss?

    A common fat burning strategy employed by bodybuilders, athletes, and fitness enthusiasts is to perform cardiovascular exercise early in the morning on an empty stomach. This strategy was popularized by Bill Phillips in his book, ‘‘Body for Life’’ (23). According to Phillips, performing 20 minutes of intense aerobic exercise after an overnight fast has greater effects on fat loss than performing an entire hour of cardio in the postprandial state. The rationale for the theory is that low glycogen levels cause your body to shift energy utilization away from carbohydrates, thereby allowing greater mobilization of stored fat for fuel. However, although the prospect of reducing the body fat by training in a fasted state may sound enticing, science does not support its efficacy.

    First and foremost, it is shortsighted to look solely at how much fat is burned during an exercise session. The human body is very dynamic and continually adjusts its use of fat for fuel. Substrate utilization is governed by a host of factors (i.e., hormonal secretions, enzyme activity, transcription factors, etc), and these factors can change by the moment (27). Thus, fat burning must be considered over the course of days—not on an hour-to-hour basis—to get a meaningful perspective on its impact on body composition (13). As a general rule, if you burn more carbohydrate during a workout, you inevitably burn more fat in the post- exercise period and vice versa.
    It should be noted that high-intensity interval training (HIIT) has proven to be a superior method for maximizing fat loss compared with a moderate- intensity steady-state training (10,26,29). Interestingly, studies show that blood flow to adipose tissue diminishes at higher levels of intensity (24). This is believed to entrap free fatty acids within fat cells, impeding their ability to be oxidized while training. Yet, despite lower fat oxidation rates during exercise, fat loss is nevertheless greater over time in those who engage in HIIT versus training in the ‘‘fat burning zone’’ (29), providing further evidence that 24-hour energy balance is the most important determinant in reducing body fat.

    The concept of performing cardiovascular exercise on an empty stomach to enhance fat loss is flawed even when examining its impact on the amount of fat burned in the exercise session alone. True, multiple studies show that consumption of carbohydrate before low- intensity aerobic exercise (up to approximately 60% V_o2max) in untrained subjects reduces the entry of long-chain fatty acids in the mitochondria, thereby blunting fat oxidation (1,14,18,28). This is attributed to an insulin-mediated attenuation of adipose tissue lipolysis, an increased glycolytic flux, and a decreased expression of genes involved in fatty acid transport and oxidation (3,6,15). However, both training status and aerobic exercise intensity have been shown to mitigate the effects of a pre-exercise meal on fat oxidation (4,5,24). Recent research has shed light on the complexities of the subject.

    Horowitz et al. (14) studied the fat burning response of 6 moderately trained individuals in a fed versus fasted state to different training intensities. Subjects cycled for 2 hours at varying intensities on 4 separate occasions. During 2 of the trials, they consumed a high-glycemic carbohydrate meal at 30, 60, and 90 minutes of training, once at a low intensity (25% peak oxygen consumption) and once at a moderate intensity (68% peak oxygen consumption). During the other 2 trials, subjects were kept fasted for 12–14 hours before exercise and for the duration of training. Results in the low-intensity trials showed that although lipolysis was suppressed by 22% in the fed state compared with the fasted state, fat oxidation remained similar between groups until 80–90 minutes of cycling. Only after this point was a greater fat oxidation rate observed in fasted subjects. Conversely, during moderate-intensity cycling, fat oxidation was not different between trials at any time—this is despite a 20–25% reduction in lipolysis and plasma Free fatty acid concentration.

    More recently, Febbraio et al. (9) evaluated the effect of pre-exercise and during exercise carbohydrate consumption on fat oxidation. Using a crossover design, 7 endurance- trained subjects cycled for 120 minutes at approximately 63% of peak power output, followed by a ‘‘performance cycle’’ where subjects expended 7 kJ/(kg body weight) by pedaling as fast as possible. Trials were conducted on 4 separate occasions, with subjects given (a) a placebo before and during training, (b) a placebo 30 minutes before training and then a carbohydrate beverage every 15 minutes throughout exercise, (c) a carbohydrate beverage 30 minutes before training and then a placebo during exercise, or (d) a carbohydrate beverage both before and every 15 minutes during exercise. The study was carried out in a double- blind fashion with trials performed in random order. Consistent with previous research, results showed no evidence of impaired fat oxidation associated with consumption of carbohydrate either before or during exercise.

    Taken together, these studies show that during moderate-to-high intensity cardiovascular exercise in a fasted state—and for endurance-trained individuals regardless of training intensity— significantly more fat is broken down than that the body can use for fuel. Free fatty acids that are not oxidized ultimately become re-esterified in adipose tissue, nullifying any lipolytic benefits afforded by pre-exercise fasting.

    It should also be noted that consumption of food before training increases the thermic effect of exercise. Lee et al. (19) compared the lipolytic effects of an exercise bout in either a fasted state or after consumption of a glucose/milk (GM) beverage. In a crossover design, 4 experimental conditions were studied: low-intensity long duration exercise with GM, low-intensity long duration exercise without GM, high- intensity short duration exercise with GM, and high-intensity short duration exercise without GM. Subjects were 10 male college students who performed all 4 exercise bouts in random order on the same day. Results showed that ingestion of the GM beverage resulted in a significantly greater excess postexercise oxygen consumption compared with exercise performed in a fasted state in both high- and low- intensity bouts. Other studies have produced similar findings, indicating a clear thermogenic advantage associated with pre-exercise food intake (7,11).

    The location of adipose tissue mobilized during training must also be taken into account here. During low-to- moderate intensity training performed at a steady state, the contribution of fat as a fuel source equates to approxi- mately 40–60% of total energy expen- diture (30). However, in untrained subjects, only about 50–70% of this fat is derived from plasma Free fatty acids; the balance comes from intra- muscular triglycerides (IMTG) (30).
    IMTG are stored as lipid droplets in the sarcoplasm near the mitochondria (2), with the potential to provide approximately two-thirds the available energy of muscle glycogen (32). Similar to muscle glycogen, IMTG can only be oxidized locally within the muscle. It is estimated that IMTG stores are approximately 3 times greater in type I versus type II muscle fibers (8,21,31), and lipolysis of these stores are max- imally stimulated when exercising at 65%V_o2max(24).

    The body increases IMTG stores with consistent endurance training, which results in a greater IMTG utilization for more experienced trainees (12,16,22,31). It is estimated that nonplasma fatty acid utilization during endurance exercise is approximately twice that for trained versus untrained individuals (24,32). Hurley et al. (17) reported that the contribution of IMTG stores in trained individuals equated to approximately 80% of the total body fat utilization during 120 minutes of moderate- intensity endurance training.
    The important point here is that IMTG stores have no bearing on health and/or appearance; it is the subcutaneous fat stored in adipose tissue that influences body composition. Consequently, the actual fat burning effects of any fitness strategy intended to increase fat oxida- tion must be taken in the context of the specific adipose deposits providing energy during exercise.

    Another factor that must be considered when training in a fasted state is its impact on proteolysis. Lemon and Mullin (20) found that nitrogen losses were more than doubled when training while glycogen depleted compared with glycogen loaded. This resulted in a protein loss estimated at 10.4% of the total caloric cost of exercise after 1hourofcyclingat61%V_o2max.This would suggest that performing cardio- vascular exercise while fasting might not be advisable for those seeking to maximize muscle mass.

    Finally, the effect of fasting on energy levels during exercise ultimately has an effect on fat burning. Training early in the morning on an empty stomach makes it very difficult for an individual to train at even a moderate level of intensity. Attempting to engage in a HIIT style routine in a hypoglycemic state almost certainly will impair performance (33). Studies show that a pre-exercise meal allows an individual to train more intensely compared with exercise while fasting (25). The net result is that a greater number of calories are burned both during and after physicalactivity,heightening fat loss.

    In conclusion, the literature does not support the efficacy of training early in the morning on an empty stomach as a tactic to reduce body fat. At best, the net effect on fat loss associated with such an approach will be no better than training after meal consumption, and quite possibly, it would produce inferior results. Moreover, given that training with depleted glycogen levels has been shown to increase proteolysis, the strategy has potential detrimental effects for those concerned with muscle strength and hypertrophy.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    As someone who has been arguing against this brotilligent myth for the better part of a decade I would be happy to now see if this myth will finally go away (but probably not... the 'bros' have a way of keeping nonsense alive)

    I also believe I will be discussing this tomorrow with Carl Lanore on Super Human Radio

    - Layne Norton
    BioLayne LLC
    PhD, Nutritional Sciences
    Scivation Athlete
    MD Columnist
    Website


    bron: Nail in the Coffin of fasted cardio

    I know from teaching hundreds of seminars that the guys who say they have “awesome technique” are usually the biggest disasters—their ego just doesn’t let them see it.
    - Dave Tate

  • #2
    jij heb altijd van die lange teksten/onderzoeken in het engels...

    jammer dat het niet in het nederlands is...ik kan aardig engels maar bij dit soort stukken haak ik snel af..

    Comment


    • #3
      Voor mij is dit goed nieuws. Ik heb het werkelijk waar welgeteld 2x geprobeerd terwijl ik het na de eerste keer al niets vond. Toch nog een tweede keer, daarna nooit weer. Nu heb ik er ook nog argumenten voor.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by nibor76nl View Post
        jij heb altijd van die lange teksten/onderzoeken in het engels...

        jammer dat het niet in het nederlands is...ik kan aardig engels maar bij dit soort stukken haak ik snel af..
        Als je het eerste gedeelte voor de stippellijn leest en de vetgedrukte tekst, dan weet je genoeg.
        I know from teaching hundreds of seminars that the guys who say they have “awesome technique” are usually the biggest disasters—their ego just doesn’t let them see it.
        - Dave Tate

        Comment


        • #5
          Even een post achterlaten in dit topic zodat ik hem makkelijker terug kan vinden wanneer ik NIET op mijn telefoon zit.

          Erg interessant though.
          The Sky Ain't The Limit

          "Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragement, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak."

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          • #6
            Een stuk waar ik niks mee kan of zal doen.
            Je kan inderdaad ook gewoon gegeten hebben en veel vet verbranden, maar als je lichaam gedwonegn wordt lichaamsvet te gebruiken als energie lijkt me dat toch wel meer effect te hebben. Zo niet dan hebben de vele dieten, waarin je je energie inname zeer beperkt of zelfs tot nul reduceert ook dus totaal geen nut.
            Maar buiten dat alles......om nou vroeg in de ochtend hoog intensieve cardio te gaan doen met een flink gevulde pens.....dacht het ff niet. Je wil niet kotsend buiten op de grond gaan zitten tijdens je cardio.

            Dus gewoon als je vroeg in de ochtend cardio gaat doen, lekker nuchtere maag blijven doen. We komen er meer op de 3% of 4% bf dus als het niet werkt....ach het zou wat, als je maar vet kwijt raakt en kurkdroog wordt voor wedstrijden.

            Gisteren weer heel veel wedstrijdatleten gezien die het doen, op nuchtere maag cardio....en ach gemiddeld bf% is zo'n 5%. Dus of het wel of niet werkt. Interesseert het iemand wat verder wat de literatuur zegt uit aanname?
            Ik kijk naar feiten en die zeggen dan bodybuilders erg ripped op het podium staan.
            De ene doet wel de cardio en de andere niet.
            1e Masters Superbody YBF 2011!
            Go M.U.D. Mart's Ultimate Diet ©

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            • #7
              Originally posted by nibor76nl View Post
              jij heb altijd van die lange teksten/onderzoeken in het engels...

              jammer dat het niet in het nederlands is...ik kan aardig engels maar bij dit soort stukken haak ik snel af..
              Originally posted by inferno_0666 View Post
              Als je het eerste gedeelte voor de stippellijn leest en de vetgedrukte tekst, dan weet je genoeg.

              Van mij mag je ook wel af en toe vertalingen neerzetten. We zijn toch Nederlanders met Nederlands als moedertaal? Alleen de mening van de schrijver lezen is niet genoeg. Ik kom toch vaak stukken tegen waarin inhoudelijk toch wel veel tegenstrijdigheden staan t.o.v. de mening van de schrijver.
              1e Masters Superbody YBF 2011!
              Go M.U.D. Mart's Ultimate Diet ©

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              • #8
                @ marnop, nibor
                Loop niet te ijlen. Wetenschap is voor 90%+ in het engels, engels is gewoon de wetenschappelijke lingue franca. Als je dit engels niet snapt (heb het voornamelijk over de samenvatting van drie zinnen), zul je die in het nederlands ook niet volgen.

                @ inferno
                Ik ben zo blij met jou. Eindelijk bewijs voor het standpunt dat ik al die tijd propageerde gebaseerd op logica. Hulde.
                "Een zoektocht naar kennis moet los staan van het moreel van goed of kwaad, anders is die toch gedoemd niet volledig te zijn." - Genjuro

                sigpic

                "Rock is overpowered. Paper is fine" -Scissors-

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                • #9
                  @general.. ik wil gewoon in het Nederlands lezen....klaar uit!!
                  Als ik Engels wil lezen ga ik wel in Engeland wonen ofzo..

                  Gaat niet om het begrijpen van iets...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by nibor76nl View Post
                    @general.. ik wil gewoon in het Nederlands lezen....klaar uit!!
                    Als ik Engels wil lezen ga ik wel in Engeland wonen ofzo..

                    Gaat niet om het begrijpen van iets...

                    tis een forumpje uit Engeland.....dat zal dan het volgende antwoord zijn.
                    1e Masters Superbody YBF 2011!
                    Go M.U.D. Mart's Ultimate Diet ©

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by marnop View Post
                      Van mij mag je ook wel af en toe vertalingen neerzetten. We zijn toch Nederlanders met Nederlands als moedertaal? Alleen de mening van de schrijver lezen is niet genoeg. Ik kom toch vaak stukken tegen waarin inhoudelijk toch wel veel tegenstrijdigheden staan t.o.v. de mening van de schrijver.
                      Wil je nou dat ik dat hele onderzoek vertaal? Dat wil ik best wel, tegen een redelijk uurtarief.

                      Dat stuk hierboven is trouwens geen maar een standpunt van de schrijver die ondersteund wordt door onderzoeksresultaten.

                      Ter informatie (niet voor jou marnop, want jij weet wel wie hij is), de schrijver zelf is ook wetenschapper. Hij is namelijk doctor in voedingswetenschappen. Daarnaast is hij kampioen naturel bodybuilder en powerlifter.

                      BS in Biochemistry from Eckerd College with honors (>3.5 GPA) in 2004

                      PhD Nutritional Sciences, University of Illinois 2010

                      Member of Scivation scientific advisory board

                      IFPA & NGA natural pro bodybuilder

                      Bodybuilding career highlights


                      2001 INBF Mid America Muscle Classic overall Teen champion
                      2002 SNBF Tennessee men’s open tall champion
                      2004 ABA Mr. Indiana men’s open overall champion
                      2004 ABA Mr. Illinois men’s open overall champion
                      2006 OCB Spirit of America men’s open heavyweight runner-up
                      2006 OCB Great Lakes States men’s open overall champion*
                      2006 NGA Heart of America Natural Classic men’s open overall champion*
                      2010 IFPA Pro International: Heavyweight Winner
                      2010 IFPAGaspari Pro Classic: 4th Place Heavyweight
                      2010 IFP Yorton Cup Pro World Championships: 5th Place Heavyweight
                      2010 NGA Pro Universe: 4th Place

                      *denotes pro qualifier


                      Powerlifting highlights

                      - Set new APA Raw Deadlift records of 645 lbs in the 220 lb class at the 2009 APA Crush Cupid.
                      - Best Lifts: 584lb squat, 364lb bench press, 700lb deadlift in 220lb class
                      - Achieved 'Elite' Raw Total
                      - AAPF National Record holder for Raw Squat and Deadlift in 220lb class

                      bron: BioLayne - The Official Layne Norton Website
                      Originally posted by GeneralIx View Post
                      @ inferno
                      Ik ben zo blij met jou. Eindelijk bewijs voor het standpunt dat ik al die tijd propageerde gebaseerd op logica. Hulde.
                      Graag gedaan!
                      I know from teaching hundreds of seminars that the guys who say they have “awesome technique” are usually the biggest disasters—their ego just doesn’t let them see it.
                      - Dave Tate

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by GeneralIx View Post
                        @ marnop, nibor
                        Loop niet te ijlen. Wetenschap is voor 90%+ in het engels, engels is gewoon de wetenschappelijke lingue franca. Als je dit engels niet snapt (heb het voornamelijk over de samenvatting van drie zinnen), zul je die in het nederlands ook niet volgen.

                        @ inferno
                        Ik ben zo blij met jou. Eindelijk bewijs voor het standpunt dat ik al die tijd propageerde gebaseerd op logica. Hulde.

                        Heeft geen reet te maken met wel of niet snappen of begrijpen, het is oervervelend iedere keer lange lappen tekst in Engels, ik ben Nederlander. klaar.
                        Blijkbaar interesseert het je ook weer geen reet of de rest van je leden van bodynet het wel of niet begrijpen. Er zijn meer leden dan Inferno en jij samen he....Denk dat het overgrote deel van de leden er geen reet van begrijpt in ieder geval.
                        1e Masters Superbody YBF 2011!
                        Go M.U.D. Mart's Ultimate Diet ©

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by inferno_0666 View Post
                          Wil je nou dat ik dat hele onderzoek vertaal? Dat wil ik best wel, tegen een redelijk uurtarief.
                          google translate...? en dan alleen eventuele foutjes verwijderen/verbeteren? Al staan er dan vaak wel heel erg veel foutjes, hehe.
                          1e Masters Superbody YBF 2011!
                          Go M.U.D. Mart's Ultimate Diet ©

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                          • #14
                            Had ik deels voor mijzelf al uitgemaakt, maar toch interesant om de wetenschappelijke kant te horen.


                            Erg mooie artikels altijd inferno, je bent waarlijk een verrijking voor BN.
                            On a long road to insanity.

                            SQ: 165kg BP: 125kg DL: 180kg

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by nibor76nl View Post
                              @general.. ik wil gewoon in het Nederlands lezen....klaar uit!!
                              Als ik Engels wil lezen ga ik wel in Engeland wonen ofzo..

                              Gaat niet om het begrijpen van iets...
                              Als je geen zin hebt om engelse onderzoeken te lezen dan lees je ze toch niet? Ben blij dat ze überhaupt gepost worden, een stuk nuttiger dan die broscience meestal. Als je een beetje moeite doet is het best te begrijpen, desnoods Google je een paar fenomenen die je niet kent, word je ook nog slimmer van.

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